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Kasim Sulton
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In between live performances and recordings as a first-call sideman for artists as respected and diverse as Meat Loaf, Todd Rundgren, Mick Jagger, Céline Dion or Bon Jovi… to name a few, singer songwriter Kasim Sulton finds time to record his own solo albums. He tells us about his life, his work, and Soundscape.
Kasim, when and how did you become a musician?
My Father was responsible for my initial interest. He had a beautiful classical guitar made by a luthier in Brooklyn NY by the name of Del Pilar. He would play songs after dinner. Old standards like "Jimmy Crack Corn", "Bye Bye Blackbird", "My Favorite Things", etc. I guess I was about 9 years old when the Beatles appeared on Ed Sullivan and that really clinched it for me. I knew at that moment that my future would be in music. I pretty much devoted all my time after that to becoming a musician.
 What kind of musical training do you have?
The only formal training I've ever had was six months of guitar lessons after I got my first instrument when I was eleven. After learning a few scales, "Clair De Lune" and "On Top Of Old Smokey", I figured the best way to broaden my horizons was to teach myself. I must have stayed in my bedroom for the next year or so practising by myself, listening to records and trying to pick out chord changes and melodies by ear. Not too long after that, I taught myself how to play the piano in much the same way. I'm convinced it was that early determination that developed my ability to hear better than if I had taken years of music lessons. Granted, there are certain things that I missed by not having much formal training, such as theory and the ability to sight read but I'm lucky in the sense that I have a little talent and can understand most kinds of music.
What instruments do you play, and do you have a preference?
I'm most known for my bass work with various artists but I consider myself more multi-instrumental than that. I can handle my own on guitar, keyboards and have been known to pick up a clarinet every so often, and of course I'm a singer.
How did you get to play with some of the world's most famous superstars?
I managed to get an extremely lucky break at a very early age (nineteen). My friend Earl Slick was playing guitar with David Bowie during the Diamond Dogs tour. Bowie's pianist was Michael Kamen. He mentioned to Slick that Todd Rundgren was looking for a bassist. Slick gave me a call and asked me if I would be interested in auditioning for Todd's band Utopia. I didn't think I would ever get the job but I thought the experience of the audition would be worth it. I took a bus to Woodstock, NY, where Todd and the band lived at the time and three days later got the call to be the new bassist. It was through that band and Todd that I wound up meeting and being asked to join a number of other artists for recording and touring.
 When and why did you become interested in production and engineering?
I've always been fascinated with the recording process. How to document a performance. I got a job as an assistant engineer when I was fourteen at Variety Studios in NYC. Setting up sessions and being a tape-op allowed me a behind the scenes look at how recordings are made. Not long after I joined Utopia I built a small recording studio in my parent's house and spent all my free time discovering the finer points of recording. That was a real learning experience because I was using a Tascam four track machine. Anything I did had to be recorded just right before I moved on to the next part / instrument. Live bouncing and mixing were the secrets to getting the most out of a limited number of tracks and if that wasn't done correctly the only "undo" function was to start over again! It would take roughly a month to record one song but the final product was pretty impressive. Also, my work with Todd Rundgren, who had produced a number of new and old artists like The Band, Grand Funk and Bad Finger to name a few, was instrumental in giving me insight to production and engineering.
Does your musical experience help with production and engineering, and vice-versa?
I'm lucky in the sense that I've managed to survive through a lot of changes in the way records are made. It started out that everything was done on eight or sixteen track machines. Drums were always comped to two stereo tracks, effects were recorded with the performance, not after. Background vocals were endlessly bounced to make them sound bigger. The introduction of twenty-four tracks alleviated some of those obstacles but before long that too became limiting. Then it was linking two machines for forty-eight tracks, minus two for SMPTE. Funny thing was when nearing that forty-sixth track, you always wished you had two more! After that, thirty-two and forty-eight track Digital was all the rage and that made for an interesting change in the way things were done, considering that bouncing took on a whole new aspect because there was less noise and signal degeneration. Today, the only limitation seems to be in what your processor can handle. I still find myself having to think a few steps ahead of myself in terms of what will work in any given song, but having the ability to record endless takes and edit non-destructively is a Godsend.
When you produce and perform during the same session, how easy or difficult is it to switch between the "intuitive creative" mode and the "technical engineering" mode?
Most of the work I do when not touring is accomplished in my home. I have the ability to work at my own pace and not worry about how much "studio time" I'm using perfecting an idea or getting a take just right. In essence Soundscape has allowed me to concentrate more on the creative process than the technical end. I still spend a fair amount of time "tweaking" sounds and experimenting with different effects but I'm not tied to the tedious process of recalling mixes and EQs, aligning machines, writing down outboard settings, storing tapes, etc.
How did you first discover Soundscape?
In 1994 I was still using a rather primitive setup at home to record demos. If I wanted anything to sound better than a rough representation of a song, I had to book studio time in Manhattan at an exorbitant rate. I was talking to Eddie Ciletti about this dilemma when he mentioned that he had just gotten a system called Soundscape. PC based DAWs weren't the norm at that time and I wasn't a MAC user. I trust Eddie's opinion on matters technical and was very interested in learning more about this new system. I was touring in the UK with Meat Loaf that fall and Eddie suggested while I was in Cardiff, Wales I stop in and get a demonstration of the system (the U.K. headquarters were located there). Nick Owen brought me into the offices and showed me the system on a 486 PC and a 15" monitor. This was Soundscape with only eight tracks and no plug-ins. I was immediately sold on it and bought my first system as soon as I got back home.
So do you use Soundscape a lot on your own projects?
I am a firm believer that I have the best, most affordable, most crash proof, most versatile, most user friendly system on the market today. I wouldn't use anything else nor would I recommend any other system. I ONLY use Soundscape.
What Soundscape setup do you run at the moment?
Currently I'm using a R.Ed 32 with four internal hard drives, two 80 GB fixed, two 80 GB removeable disks, a Mixpander/9 and an SS8IO, running on a 700 MHz Dell PIII with 512 MBs of Ram and dual 19" monitors. I have a separate 1.7GHz computer outfitted with a Mixtreme card for all sequencing, sound libraries, MIDI and loop playback, connected to the R.Ed via TDIF.
How do you use Soundscape? To you is it like a sophisticated tape recorder, or do you do a lot of editing?
That's an interesting question because in my mind, Soundscape is just that, a sophisticated tape recorder. I could write pages on the differences between the two but when you come right down to it, I still follow the same basic set of rules when recording that I have since the seventies. What I record is still pretty much the same thing so I would imagine the only real difference is in the process. As far as editing goes, I do a lot because it's just so easy. If I think a verse is too long, or a chorus would be better repeated just one more time, it doesn't take half a day to try any number of things to see what works best for the song.
How does it feel to edit within Soundscape?
I've used a number of programs that are available today. Pro Tools, Logic, Bias Peak, Nuendo… and forgive me if I sound a bit predjudiced but none compare to Soundscape in terms of functionality, ease of use, reliability and feel. I was a pretty good editor with a razor blade, and the scrub in Soundscape is exactly like moving two reels of tape over playback heads, unlike in Pro Tools and Logic. Cutting, moving, replacing, and locating are also less tedious in Soundscape than in other program. One thing that constantly amazes me about other programs is their instability. We did all of the last Meat Loaf record on Pro Tools. I'm glad I was getting paid by the day because over the course of the recording, I'm sure at least two full days were spent rebooting computers! Not too many people seem to understand that Soundscape just doesn't crash under normal circumstances. That, and anything that can be done in Pro Tools, Logic and all the others I can do in Soundscape.
What do yo use for mixing?
Currently I'm in the market for a control surface. I was looking into the Mackie Control but I believe Tascam is coming out with a new desk soon. My last solo CD, "Quid Pro Quo" was done entirely within Soundscape. I do still go outside the unit for some compression, limiting and reverbs but for the most part I used what was available in Soundscape. I became a big fan of the TC Dynamizer while mixing and I also have really good results with the Wave Mechanics reverb. Granted, both are DSP hogs, but if you have the ability to use these at will they can be indispensable plug-ins.
 What other systems do you, or have you used, perhaps when working for other artists, or before you tried Soundscape?
As mentioned above, Pro Tools, Logic, Nuendo, Reason and Fairlight. These are all good sytems and I'm sure that one could argue the finer points of any one of them against Soundscape but in my opinion, the real test comes down to how long does it take you to do any given task. For instance, one of the things I do with Meat Loaf is transfer all the recorded material in Pro Tools over to Soundscape for our live shows. There are a couple of songs that required lowering the key so they would be easier to sing night after night. I did a test using first the Pro Tools pitch option on guitars, keyboards and vocals. I then exported the tracks in their original key to Soundscape and pitched them there. There was noticeable "noise" on the Pro Tools pitched tracks while the Soundscape pitched tracks sounded more believeable. Even our resident computer tech - a hard nosed Pro Tools guy - agreed that Soundscape did a better job pitching. "BUT", he said, if you used the Antares plug-in, it would sound just as good. Well, that's great! Just what I want to do... spend the price of a down payment on a new home for a great recording system, only to have to go out and buy something else that should be included with my exorbitant purchase to accomplish a simple task.
You are the Musical Director for the Meat Loaf tours. How did you land this particular gig?
In late 1976 I was playing in Utopia. We were between tours and records and had some time off. For me, that meant sitting in Woodstock, NY, working on songwriting. For Todd Rundgren, who headed the band, it meant it was time for a production. I remember sitting in my kitchen when the phone rang. It was Todd asking me if I was interested in playing bass on a record he was getting ready to produce. I immediately said sure, and asked him what the band's name was. He said, it's a guy called Meat Loaf. I honestly thought he was joking with me and said please stop kidding around and just tell me what the band's name is. He told me to just show up at the rehearsal studio the next morning. There in all their glory were Meat Loaf and Jim Steinman ready to start what they hoped was a landmark project. We spent the next month in rehearsals arranging and fine tuning the material. I became close with Meat and Jim simply because it was such an intimate working situation. Everyone had input as to what was being played and all those basic tracks on Bat Out Of Hell were done without editing takes together. That's an accomplishment considering a few of those tracks are over eight minutes long. I stayed in contact with Meat and Jim over the years but never performed in a live situation with Meat Loaf until 1993. We had just finished recording the background vocals on Bat II and Meat felt the need to supplement his live band with a utility guy (someone who played guitar, keyboards and sang). He asked me if it was something I'd be interested in and, having just gotten off the road with Hall & Oates, I thought it would be a good challenge for me. It wasn't until 1998 that I became Meat's bass player and musical director. A position that has afforded me a great amount of experience in putting a band together and making it roadworthy.
 Could you describe for us how Soundscape 32 systems are used on the Meat Loaf tours?
Anyone who has any familiarity with Meat Loaf's style of music knows that it requires everything to be larger than life. A huge stage sound is only fitting for the songs. The simple fact that the background vocals alone take up twenty-four tracks on the recordings gives you an idea of what it's like to have to get as close to that as possible live. One of my tasks on the current tour was to take all the individual tracks from the new record "Couldn't Have Said It Better", weed out the unnecessary or redundant tracks such as drums, lead solos etc. and compile the remaining tracks for the live band to play with. I concentrated mainly on any loops, percussion, background vocals, orchestral and synth tracks. In some cases, a click had to be generated after the fact because the original basic click was no longer available. I then had to line everything up and most times, make edits when in a live situation you'd want a solo longer or an out-chorus to repeat a couple more times. I placed all the individual songs in one arrangement with starting markers on each. Currently we have eight full songs in this setup. I then had to configure one mixer that would work for all the songs. I decided the best way to do this was to separate everything into groups. Of course the click had to have the same designated output for all the songs and the fact that we weren't traveling with two Front Of House mixing consoles meant we were limited in this case to twelve outputs. We use one I/O 896 and the four analogue outputs on the 32 unit. At that point I had to decide how many faders for each group would be needed, six seemed to be enough giving me three stereo pairs or six mono faders per group. Each group was then assigned a stereo out to either TDIF or analogue output (minus one output for the click). The problem of winding up with an odd number of outputs was fixed by having to have a lead vocal double in some places. That track had to have it's own output as well. I was then left with five stereo outputs, which was perfect for all loops & percussion (TIDF 1&2), guitars, rythym and acoustic (TDIF 3&4), keyboards and synth (TDIF 5&6) and background vocals (TDIF 7&8). The extra two analogue outputs are used for Meat to hear his lead vocal double and for the rest of the band to hear the click with the option of muting it when necessary (we also had a shortage of monitor channels because of the size of the band and the fact that we are all on in-ear monitors). Next came the challenge of automation. Certain songs required somethings to be louder in certain parts, muted in others and in a few cases I used EQ and the Dynamizer to achieve an effect. I have all channel faders automated so that I can easily change levels, pans, effects, EQ etc. when necessary. This might sound a bit complicated but I can assure you it was the only way to make everyone relatively comfortable with the playback.
How many shows have you done with this setup? And have you had any problems?
So far we've had this setup since early June. The only time we have ever experienced a problem was due to HUMAN error. There hasn't been one time when Soundscape has glitched, hiccupped or failed to perform exactly as expected.
How do you manage to do so much as a sideman for major artists, and yet also record your own albums? Is it frustrating sometimes?
It does get frustrating at times, only because I get the most joy out of working on my own material and I'm constantly juggling that with other projects. I was once told, "never complain about being busy". I try to keep it all in perspective.
Do you always feel a musical affinity with the artists you work for? Have they influenced you?
Anyone with whom I've ever worked has had some impact on me. Some artists I can immediately relate to. For instance, I had been working with Joan Jett for the better part of three years and while I like and appreciate the genre of music she is known for, I really felt stifled in terms of being able to "stretch out" musically. I left Joan to play with Hall & Oates and it felt like I had a new lease of life. Daryl and John play the kind of groove oriented material that suits me best. Is that to say I didn't learn anything from Joan? No, Joan's secret is in her simplicity and not too many artists can compare to her devotion and dedication wise. Meat Loaf is the consummate performer. His ability to take an audience exactly where he wants them to go is unmatched. So, to answer the question I get something from everyone I work with.
 Are you satisfied with the sales of your albums?
Considering that I'm not signed to a major record label, that I didn't have a huge marketing budget, no radio airplay or independent promotion people, I'm happy. Mainly because the people that did purchase it, like it and I know that I've touched a few with my music.
What are you current projects and plans for the future?
Right now I'm busy with Meat Loaf and will be for the next eight or nine months. I have a small project studio on the road with me and I'm doing my best to take some time every day to write. Once my Meat Loaf duties are over, I'll probably sit down to record another CD and concentrate on my solo career.
How long do you intend to keep going at this rhythm and level?
I'm happier now than I've ever been. More at ease with myself, less worried about pleasing other people at my own expense. As long as I stay true to what it is that keeps me here, I should be good for a good number of 24's. Besides, doing what I do keeps you young.
Is it as enjoyable now as it was when you started?
Every bit as enjoyable. How many people can say they grew up wanting to be a musician and nothing else and saw that dream manifest itself into working with some of the world's great bands and artists? I've travelled, played for millions of people over the years, chances are millions have a disc with my name on it in their CD player. I think that's pretty cool.
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